Forget the invisible hand, I’m gonna punch you. My Theory on Our Economy

"Josh Welton" (watchtheprettylight)
08/15/2013 at 13:04 • Filed to: Rantlopnik, Philosphy, economy, brown dog welding, harbor freight, wal-mart, union, business

I've got a theory on why our economy sucks, and it's got nothing to do with politicians or Wall Street(well, it does in the macro but not for this rant). We're a country of cheap bastards. Nobody wants to pay for quality. I'm so sick of hearing "that's so expensive" while the moron is comparing a well built part or tool to a Chinese made disposable widget that's gonna last 3 months and disintegrate. It's a mindset that has expanded beyond day to day purchases and became a way of life. It's now how we hire our workforce...."well, potential employee A knows his craft and has experience and wants to be compensated accordingly....potential employee B doesn't know jack, but we can train him and *hope* he figures it out, meanwhile paying him shit." Funny how it works; when organized labor gets together to avoid that situation it's "artificially increasing wages." But when Big Business does THE SAME THING by deciding to put a cap on what they'll pay(Just one example, see the Shipyards of a few years back, who put on a huge recruiting campaign for workers, then bitched when they couldn't find top tier welders for $19. "But that's ALL we will pay!" Or read !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ), it's Capitalism. When we look at a home repair, it's typically for the lowest bidder, regardless of their certifications or experience, oblivious to the shortcuts that are required to hit that price point. "Why does Builder X cost so much more than Builder Z?" Well, Z is "doing it on the side," using crap materials, evading taxes, not pulling permits, etc. Same thing with car tuning and hot rod builds. Maybe look at the work the shop puts out as opposed to "damn that paint job costs HOW MUCH?" Hard to compete when a bunch of hacks are out to undercut you, and all people care about is the bottom dollar estimate. I guess on a larger scale, it's hard for Americans to compete when it's become a global economy and China is like the scab carpenter running a shady business out of the back of his beat up pickup. And it's our own fault. WE built this by wanting quantity for pennies and eschewing quality.

Screw Wal-Mart, Screw Harbor Freight, screw scabs, and screw you. We all suck. You get what you pay for.

(above pic is a cheap Chinese bracket[broken] versus a new one I built for a friend's bike)

DISCUSSION (24)

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Josh Welton
08/15/2013 at 13:07

well said sir, well said

Kinja'd!!!

CalzoneGolem > Josh Welton
08/15/2013 at 13:07

We call 'em Chuck-with-a-truck around here.

pdthedeuce > Josh Welton
08/15/2013 at 13:07

amen.

Brian Tschiegg > Josh Welton
08/15/2013 at 13:09

Capitalism works. Sometimes it's bad news; sometimes it's good news.

Josh Welton > CalzoneGolem
08/15/2013 at 13:11

HA! Yes.

Josh Welton > Brian Tschiegg
08/15/2013 at 13:12

I'm not anti-Capitalism. I just think some people skew the model to fit their needs.

Brian Tschiegg > Josh Welton
08/15/2013 at 13:14

I'm not saying your anti-capitalism. You're a lot like me in that it seems like you wish our economic system was populated by more rational actors. I was just saying that capitalism has a lot of unintended consequences caused by market and actor deficiencies. You have to take the good with the bad. Unfortunately, that means that a lot of people are going to cheap out on things.

Meatcoma > Josh Welton
08/15/2013 at 13:15

The way I look at tools: If it could kill, maim, harm me in any way or I will be using it more than once I will spend the extra bucks and get some quality tools. If I need a 20 inch straight slot screwdriver to get at one damn screw one or two times in my life, I will buy the .50 screwdriver from harbor freight.

colorfulyawn > Josh Welton
08/15/2013 at 13:22

Buying for quality often ends up less expensive in the long-run, too. You can replace crap every time it breaks and see what it adds up to, or you can buy something right once and use it for a lifetime. You can pay someone to do shoddy work, and then pay someone else to fix or redo it later, or you can pay someone to do it right the first time.

Personally, if I can't afford to buy something I feel is going to last, I'll do without it and save until I can. If I can't do without it, I'll sacrifice something else I can live without. I always try to buy the best thing I can reasonably afford.

There's a flip-side to the general public's views on value, though. It seems that if you can brag about how much you paid for something that isn't tangibly better than its less-costly competitors, then it's A-OK to spend a lot of money. Think of things like designer jeans. Is a $200 pair of Diesels functionally any better than a $50 pair of Levis, for example? In most cases, I'd say no, but you see quite a lot of people willing to pay for a name in order to impress others. They probably cheap out on all that other stuff that doesn't have that cachet so they can afford the things that make an impression through price tag alone.

Josh Welton > colorfulyawn
08/15/2013 at 13:26

I'm with you lock step.

I will say this: I'll occasionally pay a ridiculous sum for something (i.e. a pair of jeans) if it's hand made, made locally. Or if it's just out there, rare, cool (If I had the means I'd totally rock a LFA). But I'm not paying that sum just to be balling with a big brand.

colorfulyawn > Josh Welton
08/15/2013 at 14:00

Good point. I will pay more for things that aren't functionally better if I see some other benefit to the extra outlay. For example, if a company is more likely to bolster my local economy, sure, I'll spend the extra dough because I know it will eventually come back to me.

MonkeePuzzle > Josh Welton
08/15/2013 at 14:05

My name is MonkeyPuzzle, and I'm a cheap-aholic.

I'm addicted to craigslist. But I'm getting better everyday. With your help, and those of thousands of other car enthusiasts, I'm now buying name brand parts instead of cheap knock off ones. But I will continue to be cheap in moderation, I buy most of my name brand parts used instead of new.

Even in my deepest of cheap-aholic stages, I still bought good tools. My grandfather taught me well, better to buy a good one once, then a bad one seven times.

TStoff1 > Josh Welton
08/15/2013 at 14:40

Browndog

I think WE are the problem. Instead of trades people having ownership of our work and producing a product from beginning to end most of the population has a job which has been broken down into units of work. One person does not do an entire job. Like the factory each part of a job has been broken down. One person enters numbers from an order which goes to another person to pick an order which goes to another to package it. (not the best example) As a result we are now seeing things as commodities. Much like our time. No one sees the end product in most cases unless they own the means of production. No one values quality that is put into a product.

Some people still live by the phrase Buy the best, if you cant buy the best, buy the best you can afford.

All vehicles I own have been serviced by me or a mechanic that owns their own shop. All of my vehicles have made it to over 250K and I regret selling a 91 Honda Accord at 250K, but still know the owner. It was his first car and has over 450K and he has kept it looking and running well. I buy the best I can afford because if you buy cheap it is always more expensive in the end.

The "cheap" or inexpensively priced objects these days all more people to buy "stuff". When people have "things" it makes them feel better about themselves, makes them feel like they are rich, living the dream, or have it all. Its an illusion. Self delusional. A temporary fix. This drives the economy and makes us consumers.

I am not a complete luddite or minimalist, but I do scrutinize my purchases. If I don't need it I don't buy it. Everything has a purpose and a reason if I buy it. I again buy the best quality within my means. No credit if possible. I understand what my relatives in Europe mean when they say we have everything and value nothing.

My long winded version of I agree with you, but some of us do value quality, workmanship and craftsman. I try to support someone who does a good job even if the price is higher. But again that is my choice to make with every purchase. Many more choose only by price point. Craftsman/women who know their trade are harder to find every year, but usually worth their weight in gold when you do.

TStoff1 > Josh Welton
08/15/2013 at 14:42

Thanks and keep it up. Especially the welding porn!

erikgrad > Josh Welton
08/15/2013 at 14:50

Agreed on the builder factor. When I bought my first home, I tried refinishing the hardwood floors in one room, and if it went well, I was going to do the whole house. The result was crap. I can build a deck, renovate a bathroom, but refinishing floors just isn't my thing. So, I got quotes from a few places, and promptly went with the lowest bid, never stopping to wonder why they can do it for the lowest price. The answer was "cutting corners". Literally(sorry I know we overuse the word literally, but it applies here). They skipped sanding and scraping every single corner in the house. I had them come back out. They rough scraped them, and slapped a coat of poly over them, but those corners will never look quite like a match to the rest of the floor, which I notice almost daily. For 7 years now.

Lesson learned.

Who needs sway bars anyway > Josh Welton
08/15/2013 at 15:39

Hear hear! As an Engineer working for a specialized company, that uses manufacturers and machinists entirely in the USA I cant agree with you more. The lack of quality that people sacrifice for the sake of a buck I usually find very upsetting, which is why with my company and in my personal life I strive for well made quality parts and tools etc. regardless of price. I take this to heart especially with my personal life. I need a carry knife... saved for the Made in USA Spyderco Manix 2 . My boots just shit the bed saved and got Red wings, Made in america... etc. Not only will they last longer, but customer service is better the craftsmanship is better and I know that at the end of the day I am putting food on the table for my fellow working american. This is also why I usually buy older tools as well. My drill press, bench grinder, corded drill, most of my hand tools and wood working equipment is usually more the 25 years old and some including my axe, hand plane and grinder are more than 60 years old, and still run like clocks.

The WB > TStoff1
08/15/2013 at 15:39

I think part of this is an extension of the Great Educational Divide. Nowadays, you are either have a degree, or are doomed for a life of "menial labor." Not having a degree is improperly associated with "laziness," "lack of intellect," and the like. Trade schools are what you do if "you just couldn't cut it in college," and mean you're stuck in a life of "menial" blue-collar position

This problem is one of perception. Trade schools need to be applauded. Without them, we get crap products. Yes, in today's consumer culture we can't all have hand crafted televisions and American made everything. But the requirements of industry are not much changed from what they were. We need welders, electricians, plumbers, without these professions which take skill, modern society grinds to a halt.

I applaud Mike Rowe for his work and his beliefs, expounding that just because these jobs are dirty does not mean they could be done by any yazbo and still get good results.

The apprentice system exists for a reason, and having my engineering degree I very often see the disconnect between reading about something in a book and practicing a trade in the real world. Yes you need the engineers to make products compete in the world, but you have to have the guy that builds it and has decades of sweat-equity who knows exactly what can be built and how well.

I think the huge quality disconnect we have is because people want quality, but look down on those who are capable of producing quality because they work "menial" jobs. They deserve a lot more respect than they get, and it's no wonder there's no quality to be found when nobody respects the professions or the hands-on knowledge.

Josh Welton > Who needs sway bars anyway
08/15/2013 at 15:47

Thanks for the reply. Good to hear!

Josh Welton > The WB
08/15/2013 at 15:51

Yeah, I tend to agree: http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/have-fun-in-yo…

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FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > Josh Welton
08/15/2013 at 22:42

Bravo, agree with you on many points. I think you might enjoy this blog I read written by a guy named Clyde Prestowitz . He speaks the truth and explains many of the political and macro economic factors which have shaped this disease which you have so aptly identified.

Fuck Harbor Freight. I have been looking to purchase a quality car jack for the better part of 6 months and it turns out there is basically ONE company that still makes quality floor jacks in the US. They are called Milwaukee Hydraulic and currently are back ordered for several months because Caterpillar placed a massive order for their factories. Its getting increasingly difficult to get quality tools in this country and its a damn shame. I'll go back to browsing used tools on ebay.

Bruno Martini > Josh Welton
08/16/2013 at 09:05

Its gotten to the point where im sick and tired of buying cheap shit. I am willing to pay a reasonable price for something quality made. However even "quality" parts seem to be Chinese shit.

My wife has night terrors when I am looking to buy something. I research everything I want to buy to death. I will gladly pay double the market price for something that has the craftsmanship and quality behind it. I rarely buy disposable anything anymore. I am tired of replacing everything I own every few years. So now I buy way less shit, but whatever I buy I buy quality over quantity. However today its difficult to buy a quality product. Everyone just sells a name and expect you to pay ridiculous amounts of money for. And I don't own any harbor freight tools, but certainly not snap on as I don't make a living wrenching. I learned my lesson many moons ago. I don't need 30 different pieces of crap when one quiality piece will be with me for years to come. When I was modifying my old stang I used parts that were well researched and well built. They did not fail me once. FYI, most were made in the USA. We have some crap made here as well.

cazzyodo > Josh Welton
08/16/2013 at 09:31

There are times where cheap is acceptable but when looking for longevity in a product or material you gotta bite the bullet (that was probably manufactured out of plastic and compressed sawdust in China).

My work, until I changed positions, was in supply chain...negotiating pricing. Many companies went for lowest cost, and it was disturbing for me personally to see decisions made on savings alone without seeing a product or service. There were instances, however, where the lowest price was actually the best overall value: combination of price and service. It was after those instances that I realized that people just aren't prepared to make such decisions. I'm not saying everyone is an idiot in their own special way (though we all are)...I'm saying that few people pay due diligence when it comes to decision making. It's a shame really.

I agree with you wholeheartedly though. "Screw Wal-Mart, Screw Harbor Freight, screw scabs, and screw you. We all suck. You get what you pay for."

Keep posting your work...as someone who has never worked with metal but loves such projects I really enjoy it.

TStoff1 > The WB
08/16/2013 at 22:44

I absolutely agree. Ditched engineering school because of what I was witnessing in the aviation industry. Seems like every job was sent overseas to save money, and the jobs that were available required no creativity unless you stuck it out for years. Pursued a degree in one of the "learned professions" and it amazes me every day how little critical thinking is performed by some of my colleagues. Trades do need to be taught and encouraged. Troubleshooting an electrical failure in a system is not for the lazy or stupid. Understanding an entire system leads to improvements that many technicians can see that the designer could never fathom due to witnessing the real relation between parts in the working application be it an engine or computer system.
The part Browndog fabricated will not be the weak link, but if there are any other cheaply made parts it bolts to or weak attachment points those may fail. I am sure he beefed up any additional weak areas.
We get what we pay for. Cheap products and short changing education all have costs, not all of the costs are paid for right away and the results for society take years to develop

Philbert/Phartnagle > Josh Welton
11/09/2013 at 05:27

I agree with you up to a point.

People like myself WILL buy the better made name brand stuff, WHEN we can afford it. Sadly that is not always the case, therefore my own tools are a mix of cheap junk and name brands. I think most of us much prefer the better made stuff, we just cannot always afford to buy it.